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Spicer 14 Speed


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By mpowell - Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:01 PM
How did these work? Were there 2 boxes and the aux was air shifted?
By John Costley - Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:29 PM
Mike,

The Spicer SSTs were a single box like the Mack "Plex" series.Duplex,Triplex,Quadraplex.Basically a main and aux in one box, the aux being the back section just like a 13 speeds two speed back section, only longer and heavier.

Take a look here for an education.  http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/onlineorder/product.asp  TTC bought out Spicers transmission line.Most SSTs used a four speed air shift knob, though how many of those four positions were used depends on the trans.The super 18, TTC's updated version of the SST20, uses all 4 in every stick position except 5th where it only uses 3rd and 4th.Shifts like a fully progressive 5 and 4.The 14 speed was kinda odd because it also had a seperate under range like an Road Ranger 15 speed with a seperate selector valve like the high side/low side valve on a road ranger.For normal highway use it shifted like an Eaton Super 10.At one point in the '70s you couldnt tell at a glance by just opening the door whether a tractor had an SST or true duel boxes with an air shifted aux. because they used basically the same knob, though I think the air shifted aux boxes might have had a neutral position even though the knob was the same color.The early SSTs had " SST " graphics on the knob too.John

By MikeF - Monday, December 22, 2008 12:44 AM
John-didn't one of those versions have a neutral position on the aux button?  I think that the KW I drove had a neutral positon on the fully counterclockwise position of the button (that was almost 30 yrs ago) if I remember correctly?  The reason I know is that I had a heck of a time with that transmission learning to shift it.  The o/o that owned it used to tell me to flip the button to neutral if you missed a main&aux shift so that the aux wouldn't jam.  If my memory is as good as it used to be I think you only used the top 3 button positions (2,3,4) once you got out of first gear-is that right?  Boy I hated that truck-I'd rather drive a 2 stick 4x4 anyday.     Mike
By KeithC - Monday, December 22, 2008 2:39 AM
I drove one KW A model with the 14 speed Spicer and it is by far my favorite transmission I ever drove, but I remember it as having a 5 speed pattern. Was your 4 a typo Rick?

4 splits in the first and 5th hole, top two splits being used in the 2,3 and 4th hole. Plus you had 4 splits in reverse.

Drove a couple times in a 5x4 Spicer, but still liked the 14 better. Boss had already sold his old 69 A model that had a 4x4 air shift, so I never got to try one of those.

By u118224 - Monday, December 22, 2008 4:52 AM
Back in the 70s, I caught a ride back to MI from CO with another O/O leased to the same company I was. Anyway, since I wasn't doing anything I helped him drive back. He had a K100 double bunk, 1693ta, and a Spicer tranny. I think it was a 16, it had 1 - 4 on the stick and a 4 position air splitter. I remember I had trouble with it grinding the gears, although very slightly, on each split shift. It did it even when I lifted off the accelerator fully. I was never so happy to get back to my Fuller 13. In those days, most O/O I knew spec'd Fuller 13s.

Larry

By glenn akers - Monday, December 22, 2008 5:21 AM
Larry i worked on alot of those air shift in the days past but was not no driver but i found that they worked good if you used the clutch to splt the back box otherwise i had them to just go nuts trying to shift them like a trans with a stick.
By Scott Waggoner - Monday, December 22, 2008 6:06 AM
We had a 81 KW 900 with a 3408 and a Spicer 20 speed SST20. I always thought it was a pain to shift over a main/aux set. hard to 'float" a shift when controlled by air, VERY positive! It had a shift linkage box on top as the 3408 was short and the trans was farther ahead than a six cylinder. Trans developed a noise so out it came and in went a 18 speed, all was good. Had a couple of aux. boxes that were air shifted, one benefit was one less stick rattling.  Had air shift aux behind a 15 speed in our heavy haul truck. If I had to drive everyday I would have a 18 speed. My hobby trucks all are two sticks so dont shoot!
By Bill - Monday, December 22, 2008 6:07 AM
Attached is the shift pattern for an SST-14 speed transmission.  Notice that there are 4 speeds in Low-Range using two stick positions and two air-shift positions.  The rest of the shifts were simply a High-Low shift in each of the five stick positions on the High side of the transmission.

I had an SST in a  1978 K-100 that had the air block to the High Side of the air shift as an experiment to determine if the company wanted to spec manual 7-speed Spicer boxes.  They made that change with the '79-'80-'81 model trucks that they bought, but switched to Super-10's in 1985.

Bill

By u118224 - Monday, December 22, 2008 6:50 AM
glenn akers (12/22/2008)
Larry i worked on alot of those air shift in the days past but was not no driver but i found that they worked good if you used the clutch to splt the back box otherwise i had them to just go nuts trying to shift them like a trans with a stick.

Glen, forgot to mention, I did use the clutch as well, still couldn't get a smooth split shift out of it on that trip, always a clunk or a slight grind. That's the only Spicer I ever drove, I just never got along with it.

By John Hanson - Monday, December 22, 2008 8:54 AM
Bill (12/22/2008)
Attached is the shift pattern for an SST-14 speed transmission.  Notice that there are 4 speeds in Low-Range using two stick positions and two air-shift positions.  The rest of the shifts were simply a High-Low shift in each of the five stick positions on the High side of the transmission.

I had an SST in a  1978 K-100 that had the air block to the High Side of the air shift as an experiment to determine if the company wanted to spec manual 7-speed Spicer boxes.  They made that change with the '79-'80-'81 model trucks that they bought, but switched to Super-10's in 1985.

Bill

 

We're talking about 2 different transmissions here, then. That's nothing like the Spicer 14 speed that I had in my '78 KW.  It had only the 4 position "splitter" on the stick, and was shifted like the pattern below shows. There were 4 of them running here in the valley. Joe Berosik had 3 and mine was the other. Awesome transmission, other than it had a habit of singing to ya a little in the higher gears. Alot of guys didn't like it because you needed to use the clutch to get a nice smooth shift. When it's time for another transmission in my truck, that's what'll most likely go in there.

John

By mpowell - Monday, December 22, 2008 3:13 PM
Thanks for the info. My dad and I were talking about them last night. Our cousin had a W900 with one way back, he drove it once but couldn't remember exactly how they shifted.
By John Costley - Monday, December 22, 2008 8:41 PM
Mike Fowler (12/22/2008)
John-didn't one of those versions have a neutral position on the aux button?  I think that the KW I drove had a neutral positon on the fully counterclockwise position of the button (that was almost 30 yrs ago) if I remember correctly?  The reason I know is that I had a heck of a time with that transmission learning to shift it.  The o/o that owned it used to tell me to flip the button to neutral if you missed a main&aux shift so that the aux wouldn't jam.  If my memory is as good as it used to be I think you only used the top 3 button positions (2,3,4) once you got out of first gear-is that right?  Boy I hated that truck-I'd rather drive a 2 stick 4x4 anyday.     Mike

Mike,

All the SSTs I ever saw didnt have neutral, but air shifted aux boxes did.Are you sure it was an SST and not a pair of boxes ?. John

By tundra - Monday, December 22, 2008 9:06 PM
never ran many spicer ;;married,, boxes myself......but... have ran allotta ;;divorced... aux air shift boxes though.......and with either one.... the princible seams the same......

.......usually best ta clutch the air shift segment of the trans .....cause ya never really knew if the air shift portion was really fully engaged or not if ya shifted it without the clutch disingaged.......seen more than a few air shift 1241;s opened up like a clam shell cause they got pulled on while not fully in gear.......

.....

when shiftin the spicers [both styles].....ya never really knew if it was truely in gear or not....

....[unless ya clutched the air side portion].....and they never seemed ta shift the same way each time [if ya didnt clutch em]......sometimes they went ....sometimes they didnt

..

...the 3408 KW that i plan on fetchin home next spring hassa 20 sp spicer in it.....

...

havta learn how ta shift all over again i guess [as if i ever knew in the first place...lol]

By John Costley - Monday, December 22, 2008 9:11 PM
Actually, yup, we were talking about two different transmissions,lol.The one I described matches the decal Bill posted and is actually a new gen TTC trans, basically a super 10 copy with a deep reduction add on.The new gen TTC 16 speed is the update of the old 14, but based on the SST 20 box.The TTC 18 is the progressive updated SST 20.Ive got to remember to read the dates on the literature in TTCs archives cause they lump the old and new together.Heres a couple pages from the '86 manual for the SST 14 and 20.Most guys called the 14 a 16 back then, but I believe think most were thinking of a 4X4 with an air shift aux.Clear as mud.John
By MikeF - Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:31 AM
John-you're probably right.  I'm not sure if it was an SST or not.  After reading Tundra's post I also remember having to use the clutch on all of the air shifts for the exact reason he describes.  It was over 30 yrs ago, but I know there was a neutral position on the air shift knob-that's what I used if I missed a shift to avoid tearing up something-coast to the side of the road and start over again when I was learning it. It still wasn't my favorite setup, but with the 350 DD hauling 55K of bagged flour she'd run right along side bigger hp trucks on the hills as the gears were so close.  The think I liked best about that truck was the 350's growl when taking off w a load-still woulda rather had 2 sticks.  Mike
By RobBalfour - Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:56 AM
My father drove a Road Boss(one of the first in Maine)logging truck that had a 230 Cummins with a 16 speed spicer.I believe it was just one transmission,4 spd stick w/ 4 position stick plus neutral on the button.Used to put the splitter in neutral and the stick in 4th to run the pto for the loader.The guy traded it for 78 Road Boss with a 350 and a 14 spd.(old Scott Paper truck) Had the 5 speed stick like John's diagrahm.I noticed the diagrahm didn't show a neutral positon and I was thinking that  they used to run thre pto the same way.
By Dan Bruno - Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:25 AM
Rick,

I think the neutral on the knob was only standard on Spicers in KW applications.  It was a factory-specified feature that made it easier for the tow truck operator to know it was in neutral. 

The only other reason I was ever told it was there was so that KW owners could sit in the driveway for hours with the engine running and shift gears to pretend they were driving a real truck like their dad's Mack. 

By Scott Waggoner - Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:24 AM
I'll have to look at the knob on my 20 speed at the shop to see if it had neutral. Have the book on it also-somewere. No comment on the KW crack Dan!
By dashby - Tuesday, December 23, 2008 11:52 AM
I'll post this again--can't find the first post.
By Cam - Tuesday, January 13, 2009 2:00 PM
If someone REALLY needs it, and has something "Peterbilty" to trade, I do have a brand new, unused SST-style Spicer shift knob, like the one pictured earlier on this post. It has a 'hockey puck' style flat domed top, 4 positions, and says "SST" on the top. It is not the one for the 8700 Spicer 4x4 air shifts from the late '60s -early '70s with the ball on top, but for the high torque Spicer 14-20 speeds from the late '70s to early '80s which were behind 3408s and other engines like that. It is plastic and metal, and all that Bendix blue-green color. I thought it would look cool in my car, but the thing is just massive when you see it outside of the context of a truck.
By FBHOMER - Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:06 AM
My dad got a new Ford 9000 in '72 with an 8-71 and an air 4x4.

The first time I seen it I said that it was a "sissy" truck because

it only had one stick and his old trucks had two.I was the ripe

old age of 6 yrs old.He explained about the 4 speeds on the

shift knob taking the place of the other stick and I guessed

that it was ok,as I rode many miles in that truck.

He used the clutch on all upshifts,lifted the accelerator on air

down shifts,and used the clutch on compound downshifts.

I never remember hearing him grind the gears.

He hauled 621 Cat scrapers,30B Bucyrus Erie cranes,D-8

Cats,983 Cat loaders,and all kinds of equipment .

By FBHOMER - Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:22 AM
PS That's my mom in the picture.

She rode with dad to Houston where that H-5 on the trailer was

shipped overseas.the H-5 was mounted on a late '60s Ford

Super Duty.

My dad's truck had am radio,air assist steering,and no AC.

I lost my mom Oct 6 08 at the age of 73.

My dad passed away July 31 1987 at the age of 53.

By John Costley - Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:58 PM
Tim,

Heres a little smaller version of youre picture.John

By 4bangor - Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:55 PM
John; and interested fellow trucker /historians  a personal comment on the subject; sst spicers trans, 12s/14s 16, 20 whatever;  had 1 benind a 440 detroit and 1 behind a kt450  the reason spicer made these is because they didnt want anyone who was taught to stick their left arm through the steering wheel when shifting a 4/4 setup to drive off a cliff,or just run aground as they say     just 1 mans opinion born from something you cant buy , 10/4 over
By dashby - Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:31 PM
I have driven a lot of different two stick set ups and never had the need for the "Tow Stick Trick".
By 4bangor - Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:44 PM
just how many sticks [may i ask ]that you have shifted in youre days, and please explain youre secret definition if possiable in laymens terms, as macks had aux 'stick' next to the plastic round object in front of driver, did you reach out all the way thru up to youre armpits to shift main box???
By dashby - Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:59 PM
Can't remember how many sticks I drove and if I told you my "secret definiton", it would no longer be a secret.  (don't quite understand the question, but I'm slow)  Never drove a Mack, so don't know anything about the Little Ball.

Looks like I failed the test.

By 4bangor - Wednesday, January 21, 2009 5:20 PM
subect; gears shifters/knobs /gauges/round plastic things/ and the REAR veiw mirriors,  that was what i watched most, i just ground some gears when i was around 15 to learn  on some desert hy,when the driver  was falling asleep in my old mans 68 kw, so you know iam slow to catch on '[ god bless his soul] , p/s you didnt fail as this is not a 'test site', the questions and answers on this site also applys to history of trucks which includes the men that designed /built/ and to be specific the men that put the sweat [forehead and ***] risking their lifes driving. anyone jump in , over......,
By jbdistributors - Wednesday, January 21, 2009 6:28 PM
That may be the mysterious all purpose Mack...MUD Stick. LOL Friend of mine had a Superliner w a 14 speed I drove a few times, couldn't get the hang of it. Lotsa low grindin noises. The three old time owner operators I thought were the best in the business always used the clutch for every shift. Thats how I learned and I still tap the clutch every shift to this day. After I started out on a two speed rear K-10 cornbinder, I graduated to a tandem IH with a 5 X 3 549 gas power. The owner, an old off the boat Italian, would say to me." Marona You driva for me a fulla time Ima gonna put a zipper on the transmisha to changa da gear every a week." I definetly was from the" if you cant find em grind em school." Finally figured that out then ran a 15 sp direct that was much easier on me then the two hands on the shifter and steer with your teeth setup runnin an overloaded dump in city traffic. One dirt merchant I worked for had an A-car tandem with a 318 and 14 speed Spicer ran that a few times.That Detroit forced you to shift like lightning. Ran a 5x4 with a 400 CAT but after drivin the 549 gasser the twin stick was a just a go faster piece,you didn't really have to make any fancy splits with that much power pulling a tank at 73280 gross. I guess my all time favorite is a 13 speed over.
By 4bangor - Wednesday, January 21, 2009 6:59 PM
oldtimer, i didnt no to double clutch or triple clucth with that box,but it was the KING IN NEVER GETTING IT BACK IN GEAR UNTIL YOU CAME TO A COMPLETE STOP, only second to my browney in my old kw that hung the linkage and i stopped , crowbar in hand , and repeated process over/over  till load delivered, P/S also had a rope tied to trailer valve  /stick to keep it from poppin out of over, for about 30,k until i could afford to fix bearings,.  Fuller had to build the '9'speed/s so the drivers used to driving detroits /10s shifted to high range and pulled it to the low side and blew out the low/high section gears, i did made the mistake just a few times myself, and changed trany to ten 10/4 over
By John Costley - Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:12 PM
4bangor (1/21/2009)
John; and interested fellow trucker /historians  a personal comment on the subject; sst spicers trans, 12s/14s 16, 20 whatever;  had 1 benind a 440 detroit and 1 behind a kt450  the reason spicer made these is because they didnt want anyone who was taught to stick their left arm through the steering wheel when shifting a 4/4 setup to drive off a cliff,or just run aground as they say     just 1 mans opinion born from something you cant buy , 10/4 over

I figured that might be part of it, or maybe a maintenance thing from owners wanting the twin stick ratio spread that couldnt find drivers who could run two sticks.Always figured it might have been to reduce the weight a little by putting everything in one box and not having another driveshaft between the two boxes.Might have been from folks wanting the ratios availible with a twin stick setup but in a package that would fit in a shorter wheelbase, or that could be used in a COE without having to deal with a second stick beside the doghouse and the extra linkage or cables.

So, how do you remember the splitter on the SST20 working ?.Click right thru the gears like the splitter on a 13 with no clutch or did it take a little more finagaling ?.Did you preselect before moving the stick like a 13 or did you shift the splitter in neutral when making a stick change up or down ?.John

By 4bangor - Thursday, January 22, 2009 1:21 AM
John; to be up front and honest i found its the only "transgression"  that when i was tired , the trouble was i forgot the lower gear sequnce from what i recall at around 35 /40. The KT was an 82 model, and at the time of build , i think spicer wanted some piece of fullers action,and made the torqe rating a little higher to match up, it was a spoiler 14 from what i recall and when you got it right it was progresive, good,, shifting. . the same with my 78 440 freight liner, it had some issues so i got what it was worth at the wrecking yard ,[nothing]  and put in a 13sp,   i think the length was a little differant. My kt put out 460 to the ground on the dyno after run in , and never needed many gears to haul 80k. I do remember that it was nice to have the 4 air splits when in last hole, but when droping down to the next notch was a problem i had. My guess maybe the 20 sp. had 1 more main gear to give you the 6 extra selection?Iam pretty sure they were a triple counter shaft, good trans for heavy haulers, mostly saw 5/4s or fuller 15, with the 4spd brownie gave you a selection of gearing that covered the need of them guys.
By John Costley - Friday, January 23, 2009 12:27 AM
4bangor (1/22/2009)
John; to be up front and honest i found its the only "transgression"  that when i was tired , the trouble was i forgot the lower gear sequnce from what i recall at around 35 /40. The KT was an 82 model, and at the time of build , i think spicer wanted some piece of fullers action,and made the torqe rating a little higher to match up, it was a spoiler 14 from what i recall and when you got it right it was progresive, good,, shifting. . the same with my 78 440 freight liner, it had some issues so i got what it was worth at the wrecking yard ,[nothing]  and put in a 13sp,   i think the length was a little differant. My kt put out 460 to the ground on the dyno after run in , and never needed many gears to haul 80k. I do remember that it was nice to have the 4 air splits when in last hole, but when droping down to the next notch was a problem i had. My guess maybe the 20 sp. had 1 more main gear to give you the 6 extra selection?Iam pretty sure they were a triple counter shaft, good trans for heavy haulers, mostly saw 5/4s or fuller 15, with the 4spd brownie gave you a selection of gearing that covered the need of them guys.

From what Ive found so far, the 14s were progressive but the 20s werent, or they werent all the way from the bottom to the top.The new versions that TTC are building are fully progressive from first to high gear, use them all.start back on the first page of this and open up the attatchments that folks have posted.The new version of the 14 now has 16 speeds, the 20 is an 18.The new 14 shifts like an Eaton super10 or a Mack 12.John

By junkmandan - Friday, January 23, 2009 5:23 AM
John-----Am I right, the super 10 shifts like a 5 and 2 speed axle ? And they advertize them as low inertia boxes . So they're not Roadrangers then ! Whats your assessment ?
By glenn akers - Friday, January 23, 2009 2:26 PM
Dan your right that is the way they drive but they have a hi/low range like a 10 speed as often called roadranger but is only a name and they have a spliter like a 13 speed and they are a low enersia but the hi/low range valve is made on the stick so it can be triggered in the right side  rail loction. They use 123 gears in low range and 3 and 4 gears in high range spliting each one.
By John Costley - Saturday, January 24, 2009 12:23 AM
Dan,

They were (are ? ) an odd duck.The valves worked like Glenn said, the only part the driver ever saw was the thumb button to split each stick position, the range shift was done by stick position on top of the trans.They were part of the RTLO low inertia series, like the 13 and 18, and were targeted at the big fleets so their steering wheel holders wouldnt have to deal with a hi side and lo side.

I never talked to any fleet drivers to get their impression,but I knew an O/O named Art Thorpe who bought a dealer speced on the lot IH that had one in it, to haul Live floor with.The truck had a 435 Cat and 4:10 rears, should have been a nice combo with that transmissions ratios, but it wasnt.The problem was that with the weight ( 100,000 gross ),the trans always seemed to have too much torque against it and wouldnt "unload " to make the shift unless you hit the clutch.Art had thought it would be like a 13, move the button,lift youre foot off the throttle, feel it drop in, then put youre foot back down.Didnt work out that way, had to use the clutch every shift,real PITA.Art was old school clutchless, he was one of " the old guys " when I started driving.He didnt keep the truck very long.John

By glenn akers - Saturday, January 24, 2009 3:18 AM
John i put one in  my truck that i put on the road after i retire from freightliner and i found that i could run it better by sliding the stick out of gear when making a split and that way there was no slaming in the splitter when it shifted and this was a rebuilt trans so it was ok. But i never used clutch and it was smooth. I found at late at night i would get to slaming the splitter if i did not split while in netraul.I liked it because it had a deep low and a .74 o/d. For dry box it was ok.
By mpowell - Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:25 AM
I learned to drive on a super 10.  I liked it, very first day I drove we were grossing 92,500.  Never had any problems with it.  My cousin is driving that truck now, 1,000,000 miles with a lot of drivers over the years, still haven't opened the tranny up or the N14 in front of it.  I prefer it over a standard 10, but would rather have a 13 over either of them.