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As some of you will remember I bought (some say stole) a couple of cab overs that are not running, Mother nature dumped a butt load of snow where they are so I have been unable to go get them. The guy I bought them from doesn't know squat about trucks, he just wanted to get rid of them, he told me the KW had a big cam 400 cummins, I asked him if it was a big cam III, and he said yes, I think so! And he told me that the Freightliner had a Formula 350. I couldn't jack the cabs so I didn't really check them out. I went to go get some info from them and too my surprise I found out the KW is an 89 model, with an 88NTC big cam IV 400, and the Freightliner is an 88 model with an F 300 88 Big cam IV 50 ST. I have never heard of this engine, is the F designation stand for "fleet" its rated at 300 hp @ 1800 rpm. This is the engine that supposedly was running when he laid the truck on its side, are they the same basically as the other NTC 855's? any body have any good or bad stuff to say about these engines? As for the BC 400, it has the pan off of it told me it had water in the oil, I figured they got it hot and blew a head gasket, I have not been under it to see if they pulled any caps to check bearings or not, but I figure it will need a complete rebuild, I found a place that has kits for about $1,900, but I was thinking about putting 444 piston kits in and sending the pump off to be set up for it. I was unable to get my fat head close enough to get the CPL #'s off of either engine, will have to wait till I can get the trucks to my place! I have been on Bruce's web site (pittsburgh power) and read all the articals about the BC IV, but I cant afford their prices and of course they dont tell anyone what turbo to use! I dont blame them,they have to make $$$$, but I think with the knowledge here on this board I can get the results I am after with out breaking the bank! I dont want a truck puller motor, just a hopped up cummins that will run with my 500 Detroit (or better) Aaron, Glenn, Two books, and all you other Cummins Guru's please chime in with your opinions and suggestions Thanks.........Doug
Greetings from New Mexico, the "land of entrapment" 
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Doug if it was me and i wanted more power from it i would build back to the factory cpl and then set the fuel pressure up maybe 20 or 25 psi and then work it. Set the pump to work at 2150 and at that fuel setting you ant going to hurt it if you watch tne pryometer.To get much more power than that then pistons injectors turbo and pump calibration will change as well as the cam timing may need slowed down some.
glenn akers
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| I had a CPL 838 (315) that I put close to 1.3M on... I don't know if your Fleet 300 is the same or not without the CPL. I put a 350 turbo (CPL 840) and had the pump re- cal to 840 and it did ok.... then I got daring and dropped a #15 button in the pump... It ran with any 400 then and didn't get too hot execpt pulling outwest grades (Like salt river Canyon) ( but that is possablely due to the small fleet radiator it had). I upgraded the radiator after I changed out the engine.. I couldn't keep the oil inside! but never had a running problem. Before changing radiators I put a CPL 676 and the old rad couldn't keep that engine cool either and it was stock.
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Too new for me Doug, I'd go with Glenn, hang a HT3B on it, jack the fuel pump, move the govener outa the way to 23/24, I hate them at 2150 the gov starts to spoonge at about 2000, as long as your the only driver. Also run 2 fuel lines pbp tells you that and I believe it, although I haven't done it yet to any of them sitting here, they run so I leave them alone, but I had a #4 line to the front head on a 280 and replaced it with a # 5, whoopeeeee, new motor, gadzooks it almost runs with 400's, I had been bumping the pump over the years but couldn't get the fuel to er, till I changed the line.
I can't get anymore out of it, I've got both sticks hot clear up to the knobs allready.
www.killcarb.org
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| Correct me if I am wrong but more than likey that will be a low flow cooling system and what they call a step timing control engine they have can have issues for sure at time and it will make you want to pull yor hair out and burn the truck to the ground at the same time . Ours pulled a over heating stunt this last summer we went through the 2 T stats and water pump and new radiator core and finally had to reverse the hoses to the radiator so it would pull from the bottom of the radiator instead of the top . we did the repairs one item at an time and tested it and it still over heated . Don 't know why ? It ran great from March 08 when we replace the old Big Cam IV 400 with a Cummins ReCon motor till June 09 then one day it said I am going to run hot today and it did. But after we did the hose swap we have not had any more over heating issues and getting about 5.26 MPG pulling 22-25 ton loads Have not jacked with fuel pump as we are still under warranty but really not wanting to it does a decent job for a 400.Cummins .Good luck > Tony J
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| The 300 should be CPL1352. I have one at my house. It's in the same family as the 838 and 840 CPL's. Very high compression and very slow timing. Not very good for making decent power. I'd go with 444 stuff in it if it were mine and bump the timing up a little bit. With the low compression 444 pistons and .101 timing it would white smoke like it was on fire. The major drawback to these motors is the low flow cooling. Shouldn't be a problem unless you want to make LOTS of power. I had a 444 that I ran for a while and you've just got to get used to it running hotter than you're used to seeing a Cummins run. Mine ran up about 210 loaded. It can be converted over with not too much trouble though. If I use mine that's what I'm gonna do.
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t.c. (2/6/2010)
The 300 should be CPL1352. I have one at my house. It's in the same family as the 838 and 840 CPL's. Very high compression and very slow timing. Not very good for making decent power. I'd go with 444 stuff in it if it were mine and bump the timing up a little bit. With the low compression 444 pistons and .101 timing it would white smoke like it was on fire. The major drawback to these motors is the low flow cooling. Shouldn't be a problem unless you want to make LOTS of power. I had a 444 that I ran for a while and you've just got to get used to it running hotter than you're used to seeing a Cummins run. Mine ran up about 210 loaded. It can be converted over with not too much trouble though. If I use mine that's what I'm gonna do.The 300 is supposed to still be in good shape, allthough I have not been able to mess with it and try to start it yet. Figured I will use it as is for now, and mess with it if and when it needs a rebuild. The 88 NT 400 is the one I need to rebuild and was thinking of building up to 444 specs. However I am really on low budget so I found a store on Ebay where I can get a rebuild kit for the 400 for $1,000 including shipping, I just hope the crank, rods, injectors, & heads are OK. Since this engine will most likely be in a toy, I dont think it will hurt to use non Cummins parts........Doug
Greetings from New Mexico, the "land of entrapment"
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| Someone correct me if I am off base here... But I believe the 365-400 and 444 all use the same pistons anyway... The differance is all in the fuel pump and cooling... IIRC the 444 used an slightly different cooling with a "special" thermostat mounted on one of the "inspection" covers that diverted coolant to the rad if the temp in the block got hot... it increased the flow to the radiator over its other "low-flow" brothers. I have found the Fixed time NT88's to be a good engine. I believe to change an NT88 to high flow requires a special Thermostat houseing (used on some industrial models), that is hard to find and may be NLA from Cummins. I think Scott knows more about this then I.
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| BTW I used my 315 to move boilers (14'6" high 54' long 11' wide grossing 115K)... once I turned it up it pulled fine... the 1st one with the orignal setting on the pump (1800 rpm) and the 9 speed was a long slow trip across the Rockys... but with the pump turned up it pulled right with a CPL 833 400. IIRC the NT88's (both fixed and STC) use different cam's then the older Big Cams...
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Geoff Weeks (2/6/2010)
Someone correct me if I am off base here... But I believe the 365-400 and 444 all use the same pistons anyway... The differance is all in the fuel pump and cooling... IIRC the 444 used an slightly different cooling with a "special" thermostat mounted on one of the "inspection" covers that diverted coolant to the rad if the temp in the block got hot... it increased the flow to the radiator over its other "low-flow" brothers. I have found the Fixed time NT88's to be a good engine. I believe to change an NT88 to high flow requires a special Thermostat houseing (used on some industrial models), that is hard to find and may be NLA from Cummins. I think Scott knows more about this then I. Geoff, according to the Pittsburgh guys the 444 uses a 1/2 point lower compression piston than the 400, so by using 444 piston kits, increasing the injector flow 2 sizes, and recalibrating the pump to match, and using thier "high altitude mapwidth enhanced" turbo supposed to get 600 + hp out of a big cam IV 400, of course they want to sell you the teflon & ceramic coated pistons, and duel fual line kit, and the bigger pump gear ($$$$$$$$) Would love to be able to do all this, but in reality I will be doing good to build back to bone stock, besides like I said it will most likely never be worked hard, I can only work 1 truck at a time! Told my wife if we got her a CDL she could drive one of them, probably be safer to let her drive the 98 FLD 120, harder to screw up a computer controlled motor!!!.....(although she could probably figure out how)......Doug
Greetings from New Mexico, the "land of entrapment"
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| TC the engine cpl 1352 should be set to .098 and even the .101 is not that slow for a big cam withe to higher compression piston. The cpl 449 which belongs to a ntc400 was a ever day engine was set to .070 and that was fast but it had the lower compression piston. The cpl 840 was set to .121 which is not that slow either.The cpl 1211 ntc400 was a variable timed engine or stc and in the run mode under load it retarded back to .133 which is slow enough to smoke when at idle if the stc valve does not advance the tappets in the injectors.But at idle on that engine i would guess it only advances up to maybe .90 or .110 when easyfooting the gas pedal.It is hard to compare the timing from a small cam engine to a big cam.And i am not knocking bthe stories that Bruce at PBDiesel writes because they are making power. Some of the engines that they speak of would not stand up under a working condition unless you did not mash on it.Many of us would burn one up built like he talks about.They are like some aircraft engines that have high hp but it is only good for a few minutes and then you have to cut back to a cruse setting. But .101 is slower than the .070 but that engine that was timed at .070 had a lower compression piston if any one remember it would start and white smoke till it was warm.In fact it was at the point of needing the couple lbs of turbo boost the engine made at idle to keep from missing . I have seen alot of them misunderstood for a miss or bad injector when some one had the turbo crossover hose off and not getting enough air.But in the name of fuel ecomny and clean air the piston compression ratio had to be raised.
glenn akers
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| I have a 449 in one of my short hood KWs. Yes timed at .070, pistons are 14:1. Timed a little fast for the fuel I'm putting to it. I just gotta watch the right foot. You are right the 1352 is timed at .098. I was thinking of the 838 and 840's. But timed at .098 with 17:1 pistons. Put a 444 piston with .098 fixed timing and lots of fuel and the white smoke would be unbearable. With 14:1 pistons in a fixed time motor, .080 is more than adequate to keep the heat down and keep the white smoke to a reasonable level.
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| Yes i would think .080 with a 14:1 piston and the hi lift cam in the BC4 with fix timing would be a good set up.The lift on cam is hi only for the valves not the injector lobe. The ideal of hi compression pistons and slow timing has been debated different ways.I have asked in school and most instructors say it was for emissions. I say that when they found that the coking of carbon on the top of the liner and the side of the piston above the top ring was were the unburnt fuel was hiding then they had to redo their piston.The space were the fuel was hiding on a cold engine was were the white smoke was coming from on a cold engine. Then they installed the top ring higher on the piston and made the piston go higher in the liner then that wiped the raw fuel out to were it could burn. This caused them to have to recess the valves more in the head foe clearance and also the compression ratio was also higher so they slowed the timing down some to cut the combustion pressures.This ideal is were we get the clean burn and the holset turbo.That is only my ideal.I growed up watching the change and i saw the white smoke disapear when the pistons and rings started to go all the way to the top of the liner.
glenn akers
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