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Last Login: 12/18/2009 9:19:36 AM
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| I own a 1978 white western star with an alluminum frame and would like to stretch it. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. I have been to the salvage yards and they dont have any alum frame to speak of. Does anyone know if you can even get any made? Does anyone know anyone that has any good alum rail? I know this is a rare breed and bit off more than i can chew but would like to try to go foreward with it. Any other ideas to doing this would be considered too. I am also working on a budget so breaking the bank is not an option.
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Standin' Dan ATHS Member
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| Aluminum frames have not been very popular since the late 70's. Anything you'll find in a scrap yard is going to be plagued with electrolosys wherever steel touched the frame. Chances are, your frame is already significantly weakened by electrolosys as well. New aluminum rails will be extremely expensive. Given the cost, I'd think you'd be better to get a new set of steel rails made. The only reliable way I am aware of to splice an aluminum frame is to use steel inner channels. Joining the aluminum rails will be very challenging and requires someone who is very good at welding structural aluminum beam and channel, and I wouldn't even consider doing it if there is ever a chance of pulling a trailer or carrying a load of any kind. A frame breaking could be a catastrophic failure and get you (or worse yet others) hurt.
Dan www.stlouisdumptrucks.com
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Good luck buddy i feel for you. Have you done any thinking on how you will be welding it.
glenn akers
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| Thanks for the info! My frame has had a steel insert at the rear for a gravel box! thereis some corrosion but not much. the frame is in real good condition otherwise. No i don't intend to haul anything with it Just trying to restore. Still in the info stage at this point. Still looking for any outfits that can even do the work on alum frames. no luck so far. Changing to steel rails will be probably my only route but also costly. Thanks again for your response
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| I'm still looking into outfits that will weld this for me! I found an outfit that used to do it but cause of certain regulations now they no longer can. They said they would have no problem adding to the frame with using an alum or steel insert and bolting the addition on.
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I've been through a few junkyards and all of the aluminum frames I've seen so far have been cracked or bent pretty bad but I'll keep my eye's open for any decent ones. Where are you located?
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| Hey thanks! I'm in Spruce Grove Alberta Canada. If your in the states it may be the only place to even find alum rails in good shape. It will be cheaper to ship than have new ones made. Steel or alum. I'm looking for roughly 30 ft per rail if all in good shape. Will take 20 ft in good rail to add on to my exsisting rails.
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| I really hate to discourage you. But by the time you consider cutting prepping and making 4 welds in the frame then even if I were to do it I would put a sleave in it. Without stripping therails completely out of the truck to do the job so you can weld in the best position for aluminum first the rails should be cleaned to look like aluminum straight from the foundry,then the rails should be placed in an oven then after making the welds they must be x-rayed and ultra sound tested some sample coupons should be sent for strength and fatigue testing then returned to the oven, even after that you will have to install a sleve and bolt it in place. yes you might find some one who is a structural aluminum welder but I doubt if they will do so without a sworn statement in front of an atturney stating they are not to be held responcible if a failer occours. You can ask some on here who have stetched the frames in their trucks recently about how much it can cost to do a splice in steel rails then multiply that by 5 minimum. I have welded up several large cracks in aluminum frames and it took 5 to 10 times as long to weld them up as it would a crack in a steel rail if I did the job right that is.
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| How much frame do yo have at the back? I have seen guys have 12" to 18" at the back, just slide everything back and drill new holes. Whats the wb now? Can you get pics?
Tony, Roaring Gap NC. 1980 W900 Any advice from me is worth what you paid for it! What other people think of me is none of my business.
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| A late '70s Western Star would be a pretty rare truck up my way, they didnt really become popular here until the mid '80s.Finding one with an aluminum frame would be like finding a one of a kind.Western Stars were always known as a heavy duty truck, it was more common to see them setup with double steel rails for on off road work than to see single steel rails.Youre Western Star is the first one Ive ever heard of with aluminum rails. I'd keep her just the way she is.If you really need a longer wheelbase I'd look at finding another full Western star chassis with steel rails, or just find another truck.Just my opinion.John
_____________________________________________ John Costley ATHS Online Division Charter Member Sabattus,Maine
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| I priced out new steel rails out at western star with an inner sleeve and no holes drilled for 60 ft and it was almost 10,000.00
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| My wheelbase right now is 210" and the spring shackle is right at the end so no chance of moving things without adding to first
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There is a steel fabricating outfit in Vermont,I cannot think of name right now. I think John Costley has it listed somewhere. Oldspowr bought some frame rail pieces to stretch his Brockway and said was reasonable. They ship also. Are accurate on dimensions. chocko
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Well, I'm in Oregon and I know a guy with what I believe is a 1976 Western Star with a pretty long wheelbase, and he will sell the cab, hood and chassis (minus rears) for $500. That's what he told me anyway, I don't think the price has changed.
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Are Pete,KW, and Western frames about the same width? Could maybe get another being stripped and put the cab.hood and mounts on it? There's all kinds of CA stuff being parted right now, cheap.
----------------------------------------------------1972 KW925 SC350 12513 240WB, restoral in progress, 1936 CAT RD4 w/LPC 4A blade restored ground up
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chocko (7/1/2009)
There is a steel fabricating outfit in Vermont,I cannot think of name right now. I think John Costley has it listed somewhere. Oldspowr bought some frame rail pieces to stretch his Brockway and said was reasonable. They ship also. Are accurate on dimensions. chockoJoe, PG Adams, listed in the Frame Section, in the Parts and Services pages.Scroll down to my answer to Kevin, I gave him links to a couple of threads where guys used them and listed what they paid.Heck of alot cheaper than $10K.Heck, you could get a pair predrilled for less than half of that. Cowboy, Something else that needs to be considered is the rail thickness.Most aluminum rails are at least 9/16ths, or thicker.Biggest you can get in steel is 1/2", so youre looking at a full leangth double frame made from two steel rails that add up to the thickness of youre aluminum, which would be real heavy and expensive, or youre looking at using spacer plates where every inside mount and crossmember bolts up to the rails to make up the differance in thickness, which would be a real PITA. Better to find a burnt Western Star that has the wheelbase you want.What are you planning on using the truck for?.Just curious, the 210" that you have would be about perfect for a daycab up my way.John
_____________________________________________ John Costley ATHS Online Division Charter Member Sabattus,Maine
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| What size is your frame? I have stretched 4 aluminum frame trucks, added 8 feet. We have had plenty of frame to choose from in the past. They hold up pretty well here in AZ. Kevin
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| Steelcowboy, based on your name and the '78 Western Star you have, are you by chance building a replica of the truck from that movie? Always thought that was one of the sharpest 'movie trucks' going. Anthony
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| I happen to think it is too! The first time i watched the movie i thought it was the best movie truck out there! That and the cabover ford in white line fever! All i can say right now is that this is a tribute truck to my dad! As its going it may only be in mind but not in theory! Not gonna say anything on being a replica movie truck for the fact it it may or may not turn out to be anything! I'm actually surprised nobody has done one based on all the other movie trucks out there now!
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| I stretched the frame on my '70 White about a 1 1/2 years ago. My frame is steel, so I found a piece of frame steel from a Chevrolet tandem truck the same thickness and height. I capped the outside of the frame with another piece of 1/4" channel about 18" longer than my added steel so I could overlap the seams. After all that was welded up, I added 1/2" thick fishplates on the inside. Then, my third axle was mounted over all of that with 14 5/8 bolts on each side. I have had as much as 50-55k pounds on the 5th wheel since then without any problems. I thourghly inspect it about once a week, and so far, no cracks of signs of fatigue. Now, I know mine is steel and not aluminum, but I had about $125 in materials (not including driveshaft) and took about 6-7 hours with 2 men working on it steady.
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Standin' Dan ATHS Member
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The issue is not with the logisitcs of finding a frame or moving brackets and suspension parts around, the issue is with joining the aluminum. Because of the properties of aluminum, when you try to heli-arc aluminum, it does very funny things. The behavior of aluminum, especially with structural aluminum as thick as a frame rail makes it extremely difficult to get a consistent bead that is deep enough while maintaining a true and even marriage of the old and new rails.
Danwww.stlouisdumptrucks.com
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Dan Bruno (7/7/2009)
The issue is not with the logisitcs of finding a frame or moving brackets and suspension parts around, the issue is with joining the aluminum. Because of the properties of aluminum, when you try to heli-arc aluminum, it does very funny things. The behavior of aluminum, especially with structural aluminum as thick as a frame rail makes it extremely difficult to get a consistent bead that is deep enough while maintaining a true and even marriage of the old and new rails.With a new frame or moving the suspension 10" or 12" , Joining the aluminum wont be the issue.??
Tony, Roaring Gap NC. 1980 W900 Any advice from me is worth what you paid for it! What other people think of me is none of my business.
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