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I bought a 1974 International Transtar 4200 a month ago and am weighing my options for replacing the front axle. The truck was missing the driver's side drum and spider for the front axle and I'm having a little difficulty finding the parts. The mechanic at the IH Dealer suggested maybe replacing the axle with some newer to have serviceable brakes. The question that I have is do I keep searching for a an axle with Dayton wheels, or maybe convert it to Budd wheels? Any help or suggestion on where I may find parts?
Tom Hudgins
Bradford, Maine
1974/84 International Transtar 4200
"I'm a man, I can't be satisfied" - Dale Watson
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ATHS RVP Maine/New Hampshire
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| Good evening Tom - A couple of International brochures have on early Transtars (71/73) show the International FA-139 center tread axle as the stock 12,000 lb front axle; and the FA-112 center point axlesas the optional 12,000 axle. The FA-139, manufactured by International, was only available with wedge brakes and was used on Loadstars, Fleetstars, Transtars and Paystars. The FA-112, manufactured by Rockwell, Rockwell designation FE 970, was available with either wedge or s-cam brakes. I suspect your truck has the wedge brakes. By 1976 the stock axle on the Transtar glider was a 10,800 lb center tread axle with cam brakes. I don't appear to have any info on the 10,800 lb center tread axle. Likely International given the "center tread" designation. I believe the Rockwell designation FE 970 was a fairly common axle.I would start by calling White and Bradstreet (heavy truck parts supplier and salvage yard) in Augusta to see if the have the parts for your axle, have the lighter 10,800 lb axle with cam brakes, or can match up an FE 970 with cam brakes for your truck. Perhaps someone with a little more mechanical knowledge/ability can jump in and help. Another option is front brake delete on a tractor although I like the brake options better. See you at Owls Head.
Clayton ATHS Online Division Member
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If you want to convert to Budds, now would be the time. Figure out what front axle you have. If it's a Rockwell, you can probably find a rockwell axle, and just switch out the spiders and hubs. How are the kingpins in your axle? If they are not so hot, might be cheaper to change the whole axle. Salvage yards usually have them stacked up like cordwood.
Jeff
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| Tom, Welcome aboard.Heres a 4270 spec sheet from '73, it shows two more axles in addition to the ones Clayton listed, an FA136 and an FA228 straight beam. Like Clayton mentioned, get in touch with ( or better yet, drive down to ) White & Bradstreet in Augusta. http://www.white-bradstreet.com/ I havent been there in a while but they used to have quite a few 4200 and 4300s in the yard and they are pretty sharp on interchanges.Good people and easy to deal with, it would be worth youre time to get to know them face to face if youre going to own an old truck.Drive axles bring a good price at a yard, but steer axles usually end up going with the frame for scrap once everything else has been picked clean.Since they dont sell alot of them the price should be pretty reasonable.You could probably buy a whole axle with cam brakes and bud hubs for as much as the new parts to fix youres would cost, maybe less.The guys at White & Bradstreet would know for sure, but I believe the newer style axles from a 9300 series will retrofit into a 4200/4300, I dont think International changed steering box placement or spring size for quite a few years.Heck, I wouldnt be surprised if a 9900 axle would fit.Also, Stewart's towing up in the Bangor area used to have a pretty decent sized parts yard out back, but I havent been there in a long time. First thing you ought to do is have the dealer get you a copy of youre trucks VIN number build sheet from the factory archives so you know what youve got under it for parts.What dealer have you been going to, CB kenworth or Daigle & Houghton ?.If they just dont want to take the time to look up old parts, then get ahold of Morrison and Sylvestor down in Auburn http://www.morrisontruck.net/ Good people and they are used to tracking down parts for old binders thru the system.Worth the drive.I think they might even have an old 4200 parts truck out back if I remember right Definatly make time for the Owlshead show july 18th and 19th. http://www.ohtm.org/events_2000.html John
_____________________________________________ John Costley ATHS Online Division Charter Member Sabattus,Maine
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Thanks for the tips and advice. My truck is a 1974/84 4270. The original title was in the truck making it a 1974 but it has a 1983 front hood and replacement gauges from a 1984. I've been in touch with White and Bradsteet, and they claim to not have anything older than 1989 left in their yard. They cleaned out last year with the high steel prices. They don't have a replacement axle either. I have a few more places to call including Morrison (I found them on the internet). My truck is currently at CB Kenworth/International until tomorrow. I had the radiator recored and they can't seem to come to a conclusion on what will fit it. CB is too busy right now to research new parts for me and I'm moving my truck and my money over to Dysart's Service place across the road. They are more than willing to help get brakes back for the truck and fix some other things as well. I don't want to run it with no brakes because then I won't have a speedometer. I'll be at Owls Head either with or without my truck depending on what is being fixed. Tom
Tom Hudgins
Bradford, Maine
1974/84 International Transtar 4200
"I'm a man, I can't be satisfied" - Dale Watson
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| I have a set of drums and spokes from Fleetstar (I think.. they look like the ones on my Fleetstar), the speedo drive gears are shot (Fiber) on them. I'll have to look as to the drum condition. I think they are from the lighter axle and yes they are wedge brakes (I also have the backing plates/ brakes). I Don't know if this is what you are looking for and I am in the western part of Iowa so it would cost a fair bit to ship. These hubs have the two bearings closer together then the normal axles do. I think they are around 10K cap... Is that what you have?
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I have the 12,000 lb. axle and I believe I have wedge brakes. According to the latest information from one of the mechanics at the dealership, I have air assist hydraulic brakes. I can get more information. I'll have to take pictures of them and post them. Tom
Tom Hudgins
Bradford, Maine
1974/84 International Transtar 4200
"I'm a man, I can't be satisfied" - Dale Watson
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Tom Are you sure the mechanic said you have air assisted hydraulic brakes? I do not think there is such an option on IH 4200 just straight air. Could he have said disc brakes? Wedge brakes have 2 small cans per axle mounted on backing plate. Cam brakes have 1 can per wheel not mounted on backing plate. Pretty easy to differentiate when looked at. I would try another mechanic. chocko.
"Spoke wheels rule."
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I've never seen, but my father has a truck, ( I think it was a ford) that had cam brakes out back with juice front brakes, (disc I think) up front from the factory. Why I don't know but it was.
Ben'87 Autocar AFT64B 425 Cat Cranked up, 8LL, 46 Rears with 4:11's on Hendrickson Restored by My Father and I
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CB Kenworth ordered a spider for my brakes and it doesn't fit and the guy in service who is ordering the parts seems to be on vacation all the time. It's a slow process but I'm considering finding someone else to work on my truck. I thought the dealer would be the logical choice as they would have information about International Trucks. Wrong choice for me, but it's been a learning experience. I'm going to work on switching the axle with a newer one. My truck will be a Owls Head next year, I hope. My quest for the holy front brakes continues. . .
Tom Hudgins
Bradford, Maine
1974/84 International Transtar 4200
"I'm a man, I can't be satisfied" - Dale Watson
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| If you get some good pic's I might have what you need. I got drums and spiders for the wedge brake front axle.
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I'll call the dealer today and get the number from the one spider that is still on the axle. Where are you located?
Tom Hudgins
Bradford, Maine
1974/84 International Transtar 4200
"I'm a man, I can't be satisfied" - Dale Watson
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| Western Iowa... But what I realy need are bearing numbers and/or a picture. The wheel ends I have are the type that the bearings are close together, The brake are wedge and the speedo is driven off the front wheel. The wheels I have are for 20" spoke. I have the backing plates and brake shoes (re-lined).
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The Dealer was closed yesterday and I'll be talking to them on Monday. I'll get the bearing information from them. Thanks, Tom
Tom Hudgins
Bradford, Maine
1974/84 International Transtar 4200
"I'm a man, I can't be satisfied" - Dale Watson
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Axle Update for any one reading. The Service Manager at CB Kenworth/International found a junked 1974 Paystar that still had the front axle with air brakes. They are putting the new used hubs, brakes with more than enough life left for me to drive and spiders from the axle on my truck. My truck did have wedge brakes and now it will have the air S-cam brakes up front. It will be ready tomorrow with the new used part and new axle seals. I'll be bringing it home next week. Have to bank up more money to replace the bell housing and fix the rear spring saddle on driver's side. I'm going to start working on the body work and the interior until then. Thanks for all the help. Those of you in Maine, I'll see you at Owls Head. I'll have my camera with me. Tom
Tom Hudgins
Bradford, Maine
1974/84 International Transtar 4200
"I'm a man, I can't be satisfied" - Dale Watson
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ATHS RVP Maine/New Hampshire
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| I trust you will be driving it from Hermon/CB Kenworth to Bradford via Owls Head so you can save a little fuel money? I have a parts GMC 9500 in my yard - spring hangers and bell housing (6-71 detroit) available for a small donation to the Pine Tree Chapter. Tom - are you detroit or cummins powered? Junkman - are the 8V-71 and 6-71 bellhousings interchangeable? Also are yo showing up at Owls Head this year? I still owe you a dinner or two.
Clayton ATHS Online Division Member
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| Tom, Glad to hear you made some progress.I'll be at Owlshead on Saturday.John
_____________________________________________ John Costley ATHS Online Division Charter Member Sabattus,Maine
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I will be driving my 2008 HHR to the show. The people at CB have run into a problem with the king pins on my axle and the one's on the extra axle that they bought. The Spring centers match up but the axle from the Paystar is wider from the spring to the spindle. They want to put the Paystar spindles plus it's newer backing plates and drums with brakes on my truck but may have to have a machinist make some metal bushings because my axle has the bigger kin pin. I spoke with them this morning and told them to call me when they have my truck ready. I'm a little more than frustrated with them. The economy must not be tough for mechanics.  I have a Detroit Diesel 8V-71, I don't think the 6v-71 bell housing will fit. I can still drive the truck once the axle is fixed. The bell housing will have to wait until fall and when I save up some more $$. I'm just anxious to start working on the interior and fixing the windshield wipers. My truck will be at Owls Head next year. See you on Saturday. T
Tom Hudgins
Bradford, Maine
1974/84 International Transtar 4200
"I'm a man, I can't be satisfied" - Dale Watson
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Axle from Paystar is most likely wider for flotation tires,they need more clearance to clear when turning. Bellhousing should be same for 6V-71 and 8V-71 if both were from trucks. chocko.
"Spoke wheels rule."
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| Clayton and Tom------A flywheel housing from an inline DD won't fit a V engine , or vice versa . A housing from a 6V71, or 12V71 could fit an 8V 71, however the various OEMs chose their options to complement other accessories on the truck . Some used rear mounts on the flywheel housing ,where others used nodal mounts on the clutch housing [where it would'nt be that critical to have the exact original]. Then you have the SAE # 1 and the SAE # 2 option . Aluminum and cast iron housings also had no standardised mounting pads either .
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