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Re-writing Freightliner History ?

Posted By Jeff Lakaszcyck Sunday, January 29, 2012 3:12 PM
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fred
 Posted Friday, August 14, 2020 12:10 PM
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Hi all, just a little to add further to Cam's queries and only my 2 cents worth.
It was noted a few comments back how the first "Freightways" bore the unit number 82. This adds up very neatly when considering the Fageol advert in Motor Transportation May 1937/38 (?) stating how 67 COE units had been delivered "up until now". That written text leaves the door open for further units to still be delivered by Fageol that year, so when you add these to the 10 Peterbilt assembled Freightways trucks you're getting very close to that initial number 82.
Cam's pic showing the newly completed Freightways rig (with exhaust laying down) also shows what I believe to be a Timken front axle, whereas the earliest Freight-Liners used a Schuler front axle (with centre drop) This was only because most mainstream vendor-suppliers weren't keen to do much business with the fledgling truck builder. Peterbilt had always used the Timken front axle, and is noted on the Build Sheet (TW). I believe this pic also supports stating that this truck would be one of the first ten delivered by Peterbilt.
I'd imagine that all the 100 series Freightways were returned to CF for modification into the 400 series with rounded window corners etc, while the riveted front 600 series was a special mod for when the steel shovel front was applied to the aluminum windscreen/wiper skirt....steel and aluminium having no other way of bonding
Saturday, August 15, 2020 11:07 AM by fred
John Frances
 Posted Tuesday, October 08, 2019 6:46 AM
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The 10 Peterbilt built trucks are mentioned in the book "Never Stand Still : The History of Consolidated Freightways..." but there's conflicting stories of when they were built. Jack Snead said they were the last 10 built in '42 after production stopped at Salt Lake City and Tom Taylor said they were the 2nd 10 built. The Freighter at the time said the 1st run at Salt Lake City consisted of 17 trucks so they coudn't have been the 2nd 10 either.
Cam
 Posted Wednesday, October 02, 2019 6:43 AM
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I know this is an old post, but this info needs to be here: Peterbilt built 10 1940 chassis for Freightways and assembled the first Freightliners....

(To make things even more complicated in this thread), in 2003 an old Peterbilt factory guy, someone who saved lots of stuff, told me that Peterbilt had built the first Freightways trucks. I did not pursue that at that time. BUT, he loaned me several images for my first Convention presentation in 2004. Factory stuff. Originals. There were several Fageol and Peterbilt photos, and one photo of a Freightways truck. It didn't occur to me at the time, but the Freightways truck is photographed on a street that looks JUST LIKE the suburban Oakland street where the prewar Peterbilts were photographed. In addition, the exhaust was strapped to the frame for shipping. Why would Freightways do that in SLC? OK, circumstantial evidence.

Fast forward 10+ years, I obtain Peterbilt build record microfilm, and sure enough, a one-page document, Peterbilt Sales Orders 5060-5069, May 4, 1940, 10 trucks "Freightways COE" with cabs furnished by Freightways, sold to Freighways MFG. Co. 1190 S. State St., Salt Lake City. Special frame per Freightways, HBS Cummins with special aluminum castings, Freightways hubs. I had initially thought that this meant that Peterbilt furnished only the chassis, but now, when taken with the photos, its pretty clear that PETERBILT not Freightways, assembled these trucks. It does appear that they were mostly per Freightways' design, and used cabs furnished by Freightways, which borrow a lot from the prior Fageol designs, but it is safe to say that Freightways probably had a lot of input into the late Fageol cabs supplied to Freightways.

Why was this not common knowledge, or mentioned in any Freightliner histories? You can understand that Freightliner has been competing with Peterbilt for 50+ years, which would explain why some of this info was initially glossed over. I would be curious to know if Ken Self ever mentioned it. I only spoke to him once or twice, and it was long ago, and I knew none of this at the time.

Attached is a copy of the Sales Order, an image of one of the Freightways COEs from that order, and an exemplar, the wonderful and amazing Peterbilt 364 logger, offered here only to show you the street it was photographed on...
 SO 5060.jpg (423 views, 349.01 KB)
 freightliner coe.JPG (423 views, 1.14 MB)
 early logger.JPG (407 views, 1.04 MB)
rickknox
 Posted Friday, February 03, 2012 5:25 PM
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I would think if anyone knows, it would be Michael Gully. He has several hours of taped interviews with Glen Watkins who was right there with Leland James and Ken Self through it all. I sat in and taped a 3 hour interview/story telling session at Brooks Or. between Michael and Glen. I could have sat there another 3 hours listening to Glen. Michael also has several very close friends that I have been lucky to meet that worked in engineering , on the line, and test /ginny pigs through the 50s and 60s. These guys all had 40 plus years in the plant at Portland.

When you hear how some of the things came about you have to ask, where is that kind of customer service today? Do any of you know how they formed the nose's on the first Bubble Nose Freightliners? Or the grills?

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Cam
 Posted Friday, February 03, 2012 1:41 PM
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To us there is a bright line distinction between rebuilding a truck, and building a new one, but I imagine that the CF shops were modifying old Fageols so extensively, and using old frames and other parts so much in that war period (when resources were limited), that it may be a grey area as to the first truck built from scratch vs. trucks that were completely rebuilt and re-cabbed in house, which were in essence new trucks, design-wise.  Perhaps someone with more shaker knowledge could comment more knowledgeably on this than I.
Jeff Lakaszcyck
 Posted Wednesday, February 01, 2012 3:32 PM
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John, I tried to send you a pm but I think your mailbox is full. How are you accessing the full size images on ther Utah site ?

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Jeff
Dieseldoug
 Posted Wednesday, February 01, 2012 2:07 PM
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No Expert, But... According to a Freightliner produced publication, the first "Freightways" COE bore CF fleet No. 82 in the summer of 1940. in December of 1940, the name     "Freight - Liner" was applied for the first time. The current "Freightliner name was being used by the summer of 1941. These changes all occured at the Salt Lake facility of  Freightways Mfg., the consortium. The freightways name was dreopped in August of 1942, and The Freightliner Corp was born. Salt lake plant was shuttered in 1944 and  Freightliner did not reappear until 1947 in Portland, OR.

Doug "dieseldoug" Rodgers

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John Frances
 Posted Wednesday, February 01, 2012 1:26 PM
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They're just from the Utah State History site, here.
Jeff Lakaszcyck
 Posted Monday, January 30, 2012 2:26 PM
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John, those are great photos of the PIE Freightliner. Do you have a link to that site ?

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Jeff
Jeff Lakaszcyck
 Posted Monday, January 30, 2012 2:24 PM
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Thanks for all the interesting comments. It would make sense that members of the consortium would be allowed to buy or be issued some of the early Freightliners, and since these sales were still within the corporate "family" they would not be considered commercial sales. 

The story of the Freightliner name is also a little cloudy. According to Robert Gabrick's Freightliner book, the 1st Freightliner was built in the summer of 1940 and as Michael said bore a "Freightways" badge. The December 1940 issue of The Freighter, CF's employee publication, announced the "Freight-Liner". And according to Gabrick, production of the first trucks with a "Freightliner" badge began in the summer of 1941. If this is true it would explain why the PIE truck in CCJ was called a Freightliner. I am not discounting what Mike Gully said, just adding another version of the story that is out there.

Here is a good shot of a Freightways. The attachment is an ad from March of 1943 featuring a CF Freightways.

http://forums.aths.org/InstantForum2010/Uploads/Images/d7d1f8cd-5d67-4b2e-93ec-b6da.jpg

    


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Jeff
Monday, January 30, 2012 2:30 PM by Jeff Lakaszcyck

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