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Significant air system replumbing in progress

Posted By kblackav8or Tuesday, March 01, 2011 7:44 PM
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kblackav8or
 Posted Tuesday, March 01, 2011 7:44 PM
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So to update and explain what I am doing - I installed an axle with front brakes on my 59 Kenworth.  With that I have to plumb for front brakes which were never there.  My truck has a 3rd air tank that is about 24" long and same diameter as the other 2.  It only has 1 line leading to it - period and it was a little 3/8" line at that.  Unfortunately for me the fitting for the line busted when I removed it from the end of the tank.  This tank fed and operated via that one little line.  What I am going to do is feed my front brakes off it and install that old line into another port, using the 1/2 port off the front to supply the front brakes and the rear 1/2 port to charge the tank from the wet tank via 1/2 line and a check valve which I have installed.  Off the front a 1/2 line to the supply side for the front brake supply port on the E6 valve.  I bought another check valve that I am going to install on my wet tank as I don't see one installed on it.  I am suspecting it is inline somewhere but I haven't found it so I think it may be a good idea to put one in the tank feed port.  If my parts place had a 3rd I would do it to my other main tank as well and will when I can get hold of one.  With the old treadle valve, I have the lines disconnected and am now trying to get out the old self locking nuts they used to hold it in.  Figuring out what is what on the old treadle is going to require tracing the lines.  I am replacing all the copper lines off it with DOT plastic and brass fittings.  Just getting the copper off is a pain.  If I end up replacing significant ammounts I will be cutting the lines off first then removing the fittings.  I will leave it alone where good but I don't think the stuff routed to the treadle will be reusable given the ports are oriented differently.  I also installed a fitting to charge up the truck on my wet tank not only to get it aired up before starting but also to do some dry testing after I replumb to make sure it all works right and there are no leaks.  I wish I had a new treadle peddle to go with it.  Pictures will follow as I progress on the next stage.  Looks like my return to work next week might be delayed by a week or more due to world events so I may actually get it done and back on the road before I leave again. 


Tony Bullard
 Posted Wednesday, March 02, 2011 5:45 AM
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Are you gonna put a slippery road front brake limiter with the toggle valve in the dash like they used to have?

Tony Bullard, Chelsea Vermont
''''''''34 Ford BB restored,
''''''''62 Autocar DC870H restored
JeffLipinski
 Posted Wednesday, March 02, 2011 5:58 AM
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The only part of my system I reused was the compressor and the tanks. Everything else got replaced. I wonder if you might be better off just cutting everything out and starting over. Might be less headache.

Jeff
Aaron
 Posted Wednesday, March 02, 2011 6:02 AM
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Wrong, the 3 tank system is one as a wet tank, a couple thing operate out of it, can have a check valve between it and the compressor not usually though, the second tank is the dry tank and everything operates out of it, including the trigger for the compressor, the 3rd tank  ONLY  operates the emergency brakes, there will be one line going into it and one line coming out of it to the brake valve thats it, nothing else.  To operate the front brakes, putting an E 3 at the foot valve and routing the exzisting lines to work on it you run another line off of the application side of the foot vale to an LQ4 which is  a front brake limiting valve, this allows slight braking at slow pressure and when stomped on will open up to max air at front brakes, you don't need to plumb this to modern truck specs as its not necessary.

I can't get anymore out of it, I've got both sticks hot clear up to the knobs allready.
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peterj
 Posted Wednesday, March 02, 2011 6:16 AM
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KB, in case you don't have these;

Older KW diagram,
Then the bible.http://forums.aths.org/InstantForum2010/Uploads/Images/0acc0e04-38ea-4052-91a0-d3c2.jpg

peterj 

blogs:  http://forums.aths.org/InstantForum2010/ATHS-Discussion-Forums/Now,,-youre-not-going-to-believe-this,-but!!!!/PeterJ

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http://forums.aths.org/InstantForum2010/Uploads/Images/10cbd116-069f-41ed-848a-1cc5.jpg
 Bendix%20AirBrakeHandbk4_2002.pdf (80,008 views, 5.21 MB)
 mybendix air brakes.pdf (898 views, 2.67 MB)
 Kenworth_Air_Plumbing_Diagram.jpg (1,059 views, 144.08 KB)
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 6:23 AM by peterj
kblackav8or
 Posted Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:57 AM
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The only thing that e-brake tank is doing is an alternate release for the parking brake.  The air system on this truck has been modified it appears in other areas.  Has some oddball valves in the dash, namely the Freightliner brake release and the toggle trailer brakes.  I have 2 pull type valves that were given to me that I plan to use once this is sorted.  I will try and get some pictures today.  Getting that old treadle out alone has been a pain. 


Aaron
 Posted Wednesday, March 02, 2011 11:40 AM
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Thats what its susposed to do, does that cab have the handle and push button parking brake valve combination, with the button above the handle.

I can't get anymore out of it, I've got both sticks hot clear up to the knobs allready.
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kblackav8or
 Posted Wednesday, March 02, 2011 12:42 PM
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It currently has one from a freightliner fangled in there that really appears to have been added later.  I have some old Williams valves to replace it at a later time.  What I am going to do is continue to use that tank to but feet it off the wet with a check valve and run the front axle off it and continue to tie into that emergency line from a different port.  The cans on the front brakes are pretty small. 

I finally have the treadle valve out.  It was a pain and a 2 person job.  The pedal is bad enough I am going to have to replace it too.  Has  hole worn in it.  It doesn't pivot smoothly and seems to bind up pretty easily.  I tried to punch the roll pin out of the pivot to try and clean it up and free it up without success.

On edit with some PB blaster and vigorous movement I was able to free up the pedal to an acceptable level.  I have put some grease and oil on appropriate areas and will be plumbing the valve in probably tomorrow.  I do have another pedal on order.  In the end the truck will ultimately be mostly replumbed section by section.  All the stuff for the front brakes and associated with the treadle valve will be all new when I am done. 



Wednesday, March 02, 2011 1:29 PM by kblackav8or
Aaron
 Posted Wednesday, March 02, 2011 3:48 PM
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You lost me, what are you going to feed what from where, as I explained you can run the front brakes off of the application side of the foot valve, OR you can run a line from the relay at for the rear brakes all the way up to the front brakes, nothing else is needed, you cannot run anything off of the emergency tank other than the emergency brake release, there is a section in the dot about that.  The diagrams that Peter posted the one thats up is good but it doesn't look to have the 3rd tank in it so it is pre 1960, the others didn't come up.

I can't get anymore out of it, I've got both sticks hot clear up to the knobs allready.
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kblackav8or
 Posted Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:06 PM
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Remember I have that oddball ancient treadle valve that nobody recognized?  Nobody stocks E3's around here, they do stock E6's and the parts guy said I would be better off running one.  He went through the chart with me.  Now if I replumb just a few things and change the valves in my dash to these others I have, I get rid of the lever push button valve that isn't original to the truck anyway.  If I have to I could run newer style valves and I am not affraid to just do it and have it be a modern parallel system.  Brakes wipers and horn are all that run off the system.  Already intend to replace the lines to the guages with plastic and have the fittings and line.  My truck is a 59 that has been altered. 

http://forums.aths.org/InstantForum2010/Uploads/Images/9feb4a9f-9614-4bb1-8828-8a50.jpg

Now if one of those ports in the middle could have been used to run the front brakes, I probably would have just done that for now and saved the headaches of replumbing for later.  The valve was sticking and not releasing like it should anyway, probably because the pedal itself was not pivoting very well.  




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